“A sense of panic washes over me, and I realize these kids don’t care whether their reading makes sense or not. When it doesn’t, they simply quit. I realized long ago that most struggling readers weren’t going to love reading enough to choose it as a leisurely pastime. However, electing to quit when text becomes difficult is a choice that could have serious consequences. In a few short years, these students will be on their own. They will have to read apartment leases, car loan contracts, income tax forms, and material associated with their jobs. It’s one thing to quit reading a chapter out of a textbook and fail a test. It’s quite a different matter to quit reading an income tax form and miss out on a refund.” — Chris Tovani, I Read It, but I Don’t Get It (via lhuddles)
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verbsnouns asked: let's not overlook that teachers are the ones who even get people through that 18-month course, and the teachers for that course likely get paid less than the students make once they've graduated. education should be one of the highest priorities in this country because it would change a lot of things—including the medical profession—for the better. but it's not, because the value of teachers is an intangible and like most things, if we can't see its value why should we pay more for it?
Yes. I also think a huge factor is that we hate paying more for people whose jobs are taxpayer funded. Bottom line. I have family members with degrees in paramedicine. Their jobs are incredibly valued, they save lives daily, and they also make very little money. I’m just grateful they love what they do.
lhuddles asked: I can't believe someone had the gall to say that teachers make what they deserve and that the risks are much less. I carry some scars from teachers I've had--and I know that teachers can carry guilt from mistakes they've made, especially during these middle grades years. The two things that bother me most about teacher salaries are 1) that teachers work so, so many hours and so hard and are scraping to pay rent and buy food and 2) there's a finite cap on $ regardless of effectiveness.
Excellent points. Again, I never said I should make exactly what any other profession makes. I’d like to be able to worry a little less about money though. And maybe afford a place to live and some groceries. I didn’t think that was a crazy request.
andrewbaggott asked: I'm sorry that I've annoyed you, and I don't mean to be abrasive. You're obviously one of the dedicated ones, who takes her role seriously. I like what you write on here and I enjoy your teacher perspective. The fields of medicine and education are both broken, in very different ways. Medicine has greedy hospital administrators and a culture of litigation. Education has messy politics and - well, messy politics is enough, though, isn't it? I don't know how to fix it.
Thank you for the apology.
apsies: On teachers and the money we don't make. -
Someone I know was just accepted into an 18 month long non-degree program that will result in a job in the medical field in which the starting pay could potentially be many thousands of dollars more than I make in a year.
Now, do I think it’s okay that someone who takes an 18 month course could…
No. Teachers make what they’re supposed to make: what the market dictates. I know plenty of people who have somehow become teachers who are not qualified to teach. These people don’t know the difference between “they’re” “their” and “there”, yet they are teaching our children. Until we raise the standards for teachers, you get paid what you should be paid.
Well, in that case I know plenty of nurses, x-ray techs, medical assistants, etc. who barely made their way through their programs at really awful for-profit schools who admit everybody and their grandmother and are really shitty at what they do. We should probably raise the standards for those people too, I guess. Especially since they’ve got lives in their hands and all.
Bad nurses are more quickly found out, considering a failure on their part results in a body on its way to morgue. The only area of nursing that can go half-assed is patient rapport, because typically that will only result in hurt feelings, not hurt organs. When a serious medical mistake is made, it’s very traumatizing to the nurse, who often ends up haunted by feelings of guilt. On the other hand, I’ve had to plod through plenty of classes taught by uncommitted educators who did more harm than good. The difference there is that a half-assed job in the classroom is not readily apparent, and the damage might only become obvious over a long period of time.
Not to say I don’t admire or respect teachers. I’m even considering teaching high school later in life. But what the-poc says is true: Our legal standards for what happens in a classroom are much lower than for what happens in a hospital. A teacher can be terrible and still follow all protocols. A nurse can’t.
I believe the role of teachers is very important, and because it is important its practitioners deserve higher pay. But first they have to live up to that importance. The Scandinavian school systems pay their teachers very well, but they also make sure they have [what seem to us] over-the-top qualifications.
How much more qualified do you want me to be? I have a bachelor’s degree, a master’s degree, I passed numerous Praxis exams with flying colors. I’m required to obtain 24 professional development hours per year. If I want to make more money I have to obtain yet another degree.
And I like how folks are assuming the 18 month program I’m speaking of is nursing. It’s not. It’s not a profession that requires work in a hospital either. There are plenty of folks in the medical profession who do half-assed jobs as well. Which is fine. That’s every profession. Have any of you spent any time as an actual patient? It isn’t all roses and rainbows and impeccable bedside manner.
Now, excuse me. I need to go live up to my importance and work my summer job.
My mother is a medical professional who is absolutely stunning at the work she does. The woman answered a calling when I was in 8th grade, busted her ass through an 18 month program and when she began her first job in the profession my family finally had enough money to live on. It was the greatest thing that could have ever happened to her or to us as her children. I’m forever grateful for the wage she was able to make because it changed our lives.
She sent her daughter to college and has supported me through every step of the way toward this teaching career. Because my calling was not in the medical field, but in a classroom instead. And all I’m saying is that I hope this discussion doesn’t fall into some sort of us vs. them thing. THAT was never my intention.
P.S. Everybody keeps talking about awful teachers and how they somehow make our salaries okay and deserved. Are there that many bad teachers? Because I certainly haven’t met too many of them.
apsies: On teachers and the money we don't make. -
Someone I know was just accepted into an 18 month long non-degree program that will result in a job in the medical field in which the starting pay could potentially be many thousands of dollars more than I make in a year.
Now, do I think it’s okay that someone who takes an 18 month course could…
No. Teachers make what they’re supposed to make: what the market dictates. I know plenty of people who have somehow become teachers who are not qualified to teach. These people don’t know the difference between “they’re” “their” and “there”, yet they are teaching our children. Until we raise the standards for teachers, you get paid what you should be paid.
Well, in that case I know plenty of nurses, x-ray techs, medical assistants, etc. who barely made their way through their programs at really awful for-profit schools who admit everybody and their grandmother and are really shitty at what they do. We should probably raise the standards for those people too, I guess. Especially since they’ve got lives in their hands and all. I mean, really? Is that where we’re going with this? I’m baffled.
apsies: On teachers and the money we don't make. -
Someone I know was just accepted into an 18 month long non-degree program that will result in a job in the medical field in which the starting pay could potentially be many thousands of dollars more than I make in a year.
Now, do I think it’s okay that someone who takes an 18 month course could…
I’m sorry but this really freaking upsets me. Excuse me but teachers can’t kill someone or do serious harm to someone by making a mistake or just not catching something. No offense but the medical professions put a lot more on the line and what mistakes we may make? We carry for life. I don’t think time spent should equate to salary necessarily, and I think this post is just ignorant. Time isn’t the only factor.
Now, I’m not begrudging a medical professional the pay they make in any way and I made that clear in my post. You are the one being ultra sensitive. I’m not even saying I should be making the exact same pay. What I am saying is that I’m out here busting my ass and nurturing the NEXT GENERATION. I’m required to get a masters degree to stay in my profession. I work longer than 40 hours a week and every single weekend. And I barely make enough to live on. How is that okay?
And we obviously get no respect for any of it.
Because I’m out here saying we should all get paid. And I’m noticing several medical professionals who are saying that no, I shouldn’t. Plenty of professions don’t hold actual lives in their hands either and make a whole lot more than either of us. Didn’t know that was requirement for a living wage these days.
“Everything that failed to work for him for so long now seemed to work effortlessly, and these were not all obvious triumphs. Think about Sherlock Holmes: Were there really many good reasons to believe that a movie set in Victorian England with Guy Ritchie directing would result in anything but a messy, ill-disciplined misfire? And yet every single movie on that list has been far more successful than any he had previously been involved with. It is, he concedes, “the sweet spot that kind of continued.” I ask whether he has been doing something better to make all this happen. He thinks for a while, and when he answers he does so seriously. “We work weekends,” he says. “This is not a ‘Monday through Friday and then let’s go and party in Aspen’ thing. We work weekends.” — Profile: Robert Downey Jr.: GQ